Fatima, Bishop Barron, and the Number to be Saved

Discussion in 'Scriptural Thoughts' started by Mario, Aug 23, 2022.

  1. Mario

    Mario Powers

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    I have to react to the above clip for I have mixed feelings.

    It is obvious that Bishop Barron has been stung by the criticism of those who say his position on the number in Hell (few vs. many) is out of line with the truth. The vision of Hell that the children of Fatima experienced is an obvious counterpoint.

    His exegesis on the passage is attractive in that the context does focus on a Jewish perspective and the shocking large number from east, west, north, and south (i.e. Gentiles) that will enter the Kingdom, instead. I must say the bishop's claim that those on whom the door was shut in the parable is a warning from Christ that his own People are too smug in their self-assurance and Hell is a real possibility.

    What is sad is Bishop Barron ignores the following in last Sunday's Gospel while making his point:

    "Lord, will only a few people be saved?"He answered them, "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I tell you, will attempt to enter but will not be strong enough."

    Here, Jesus states clearly that the many will not strive and thus fail to enter. This not only rebukes Bishop Barron's hope, but also opposes any Christian that simply claims accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior is the ultimate guarantee of salvation. Our cooperation is necessary!

    Philippians 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2022
  2. djmoforegon

    djmoforegon Powers

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    Truth with love, very well said.
     
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  3. Mario

    Mario Powers

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    You know what happens when you open up a certain clip on Youtube; the next time you go to Youtube you're deluged with related material. And so appeared a large number of Bishop Barron homilies. I have to give this one an A+!

     
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  4. Frankly

    Frankly Archangels

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    Myself included..

    As for me, I try (probably unsuccessfully) not to overly dwell upon (secondary? theological?) questions which seem to me would drain my time away from simply attending to obeying God...

    The very fact that 'mixed feelings' arise is a sign of unnecessary confusion...?
     
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  5. LusoKnight

    LusoKnight Principalities

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    Even though I have my criticisms on many of Bishop Barron's positions, specially regarding the dogma of Hell and how souls are saved (Christianity is not the privileged way like he says, but the only way), I must say that Our Lord in that passage purposefully doesn't clarify wether most or just a few are saved. Only that we should strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many will try but won't be able to.

    It is known that there are many souls in Hell, but many is not necessarily the majority (although it can be).
     
  6. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    I suppose we must have pity and a certain sympathy for Bishop Barron going zonky.

    I think the problem was the education of seminarians and post seminarians over a certain epoch.

    That was never his fault. He was just taught bad things.

    I notice generally good devout lay Catholics tend to remain very stout in the Faith...without a single error. Whereas priests and Bishops tend to head off to Land of Oz. Bad teachings .

    Anyway I had a bad attitude on Bishop Barron and his likes. But his firm stance on Abortion has really won me back. Poor man. A bad education is a bad education; that's not his fault.
     
  7. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

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    I think you are right, here.
     
  8. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    Having said all this I would sooner listen to the Voice of my old Irish Catholic parents and Grandparents than all the Bishops Barrons in the World. For all their Doctorates.

    ..and I think smiling down on us all from Heaven, I think so would they.:):)

    They had more simple sense of the difference between good and bad in their little fingers....

    ..and it's not a lot to ask , is it?

    To hope that your Bishop knows from good or bad?
     
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  9. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    ..and well he hasn't always has?
     
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  10. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

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    :eek:
     
  11. SteveD

    SteveD Powers

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    I once commented on Bishop Barron's video about 'we have a reasonable hope that all are saved' pointing out that Our Lady of Fatima was quoted by the visionaries as saying that 'many go to hell because no one prays for them'. He responded saying that Fatima is a private revelation and that no-one is obliged to believe it (clearly implying that he doesn't). So, he prefers his own theory to the word of the canonised Fatima saints (and those of St. Faustina, St. Pio and many, many others). A brave, if very foolish, man.
     
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  12. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    Our Lady and all things Marian remind of the little birds that they used to take down the mines to give them warning of when the air had turned bad so they could get out in time and save their lives.

    Modernists react like a cat on a hot tin roof when anything Marian approaches.

    I see one Bishop had , incredibly enough refused a group to say a Decade of the Rosary in his Cathedral.

    Go figure.

    https://www.catholic365.com/article...from-praying-rosary-inside-the-cathedral.html

    Bishop bans Catholics from praying rosary inside the cathedral

    [​IMG]

    It may come as no surprise to many Catholics that another modernist bishop has taken a stand against those promoting Traditional Catholicism. On the other hand, it is a far stretch for a bishop to ban Catholics, or a group of Catholics, from praying the rosary inside the cathedral. However, that is exactly what happened in Peoria, Illinois.

    Catholic podcast Our Warpath, which promotes Traditional Catholicism and seeks restoration of Catholicism from modernism, is hosting the March for Catholics in Peoria, Illinois at the end of September. Joe Rigi, president of Our Warpath, says the bishop denied them the opportunity to pray the rosary inside the cathedral. In fact, according to Rigi, the group only wanted to pray one single decade of the rosary in the cathedral before the tabernacle. It would have taken, at most, five minutes and all other activities would be held at the hotel convention center. However, the bishop refused. In fact, he banned them from praying the rosary at any parish inside the diocese.

    According to Our Warpath, Bishop Louis “Lou” Tylka (who is fairly new to being the bishop at the diocese), not only closed the doors of the cathedral to Catholics attending the March for Catholics, but also refused to have a conversation with Rigi, or anyone else from Our Warpath, about the issue. On their website, Our Warpath writes, “Tylka refused to speak to Rigi, or anyone associated with Our Warpath, regarding the denial. Diocesan attorney Patricia Gibson, on behalf of the bishop, called Rigi and informed him the diocese would not allow those in attendance to come and pray inside the cathedral or at any other parish in the diocese. “All we were wanting to do is come into the cathedral and pray a decade of the Rosary and we would hold all the other events at the hotel,” said Rigi.

    The cathedral is open to the public, but apparently not to Catholics who disagree with the bishop’s pro-LGBTQ touting and pro-Protestant loving agenda. Members of the public, those who are anywhere between atheistic, Protestants, Mormons or even Muslims, could come inside the cathedral at any hour of the day that it is open, but baptized, confirmed Catholics living the faith are refused if they disagree with the bishop’s politics.

    Rigi said the diocese initially made-up excuses, even lying, to Our Warpath about the reasons they could not use the cathedral. Initially, Rigi said, he was informed by Phil Lee, Director of Divine Worship, that the cathedral would not be able to secure enough volunteers to help with such a large group of people. Rigi countered by offering to pay the “volunteers” in order to ensure they could get enough to help. Following the failure of that excuse, Gibson later told Rigi the cathedral would conveniently be “under construction” those days and would be closed. When asked about the use of other parishes due to the construction of the cathedral, the diocese refused to answer right away and then Gibson blatantly refused Rigi by stating it was because of their guest speakers the diocese was refusing the participants the opportunity to pray.”
     
  13. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    There is a wonderful scene from the film ,'Bernadette', where the Bishop of Orleans visits St Bernadette in her convent. He says that there have been so many false recent apparitions in France that he is starting to doubt if any , including Lourdes are true.

    But as Bernadette one time said, 'I am only given the task of passing on the messages of Our Blessed Lady, I am not asked to convince you they are true'.

    The Bishop went away a new man . He said he was convinced by St Bernadette's simplicity.

    I find it the same with Garabandal. The main thing that convinced me it is all true is Conchita herself.
     
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  14. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    But if we do not believe in the Supernatural then how can we ever believe in any Supernatural Event? I am afraid many of our clergy simply do not give and credence at all to the Supernatural.


    It reminds me of what Jesus said, that even if people came back from the dead and appeared to them; still they would not believe.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2022
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  15. LusoKnight

    LusoKnight Principalities

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    It's a symptom of the on-going apostasy. They have lost the faith. Case in point:



    Starts at 0:55

    The sad thing is that this viewpoint is very widespread in the Church hierarchy, there's this inner acknowledgement but external denial. Well, some don't acknowledge at all.

    I don't know how they do it, and I do pity people like Bishop Barron who live in this weird, lukewarm denial.
     
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  16. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    It's so sad. They would view people like ourselves who take the Tradition Faith of Our Fathers as a read as childlike, simple and unsophisticated. There was a time that that would be all they viewed us as untaught children. People who maybe need helped and led. But harmless.

    But now the bar has moved a lot and they are starting to see us as sinister, aggressive and subversive. This is a whole new kettle of fish. We have , quite suddenly, become the enemy within.
     
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  17. LusoKnight

    LusoKnight Principalities

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    Indeed, but then again, it was prophecied that it would happen. We must endure while the storm passes.
     
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  18. PNF

    PNF Archangels

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    Bishop Barron actually said "The devil is good, that is to say, in his being, in his intelligence, in his will. In his ontological integrity, the devil is good. But his goodness has become warped." That is a direct quote.

    Wrong. That is not Catholic teaching. The devil freely chose evil. He is no longer "good." He cannot do "good" per se because to choose "good" requires God's grace. The devil is bereft of God's grace, eternally. His "will" is evil, and his will is evil eternally. The devil is not just "warped." He did not just "make a mistake." He cannot be forgiven. He is eternally condemned to Hell and uses his demons to bring as many of us as he can into perdition with him.
     
  19. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

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    Truth.
     
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  20. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

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    “Abandon all hope, ye who enter here.”
     
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