Jesus in the tomb -- awake at 5am thinking these thoughts - Jesus in the tomb - all alone - did his mother sleep - where was Mary? If Jesus was God and perfect then he (like our original parents before the fall) should not have been subject to death - did he voluntarily give up to death in obedience to the father? At death did his soul detach from his body and if it did where did it go - we know he descended into the dead/sheol - did he go anywhere else? - on the resurrection did his soul re-unite with his body? Maybe I am just stupid? lol
It’s wonderful to ponder and ask these questions! I’m sure there are much more theologically astute people here who can give better answers. I’ve always read this ancient homily (author unknown) from Todays Office of the Church. The mystery of Christ being fully Divine and fully Human is at heart here. From the moment of his conception He agreed to take on all human frailties including physical death of his body. I do believe his body lied in the tomb until it was resurrected and reunited with his soul which had separated from his body while he went to hell to free those in chains there as this homily describes. Where I get confused is when did his soul go back to Heaven? Did he spend the 40 days after Easter before ascending still here on earth? He told Mary Magdalene to not embrace Him that first Easter morning because he had not yet ascended to the Father. But, he also told the Repentant thief on the cross, that “THIS DAY, you will be with me in paradise”. I guess it is a mystery. Perhaps theologians and saints have shared their thoughts. But, in the end, I suppose what matters most, is that Jesus Christ willingly followed His Fathers will by suffering, dying and being buried. Descending to Hell to free those there after the fall of Adam and then was resurrected and ascended into Heaven. From an ancient homily for Holy Saturday The Lord's descent into the underworld Something strange is happening – there is a great silence on earth today, a great silence and stillness. The whole earth keeps silence because the King is asleep. The earth trembled and is still because God has fallen asleep in the flesh and he has raised up all who have slept ever since the world began. God has died in the flesh and hell trembles with fear. He has gone to search for our first parent, as for a lost sheep. Greatly desiring to visit those who live in darkness and in the shadow of death, he has gone to free from sorrow the captives Adam and Eve, he who is both God and the son of Eve. The Lord approached them bearing the cross, the weapon that had won him the victory. At the sight of him Adam, the first man he had created, struck his breast in terror and cried out to everyone: “My Lord be with you all.” Christ answered him: “And with your spirit.” He took him by the hand and raised him up, saying: “Awake, O sleeper, and rise from the dead, and Christ will give you light.” I am your God, who for your sake have become your son. Out of love for you and for your descendants I now by my own authority command all who are held in bondage to come forth, all who are in darkness to be enlightened, all who are sleeping to arise. I order you, O sleeper, to awake. I did not create you to be held a prisoner in hell. Rise from the dead, for I am the life of the dead. Rise up, work of my hands, you who were created in my image. Rise, let us leave this place, for you are in me and I am in you; together we form only one person and we cannot be separated. For your sake I, your God, became your son; I, the Lord, took the form of a slave; I, whose home is above the heavens, descended to the earth and beneath the earth. For your sake, for the sake of man, I became like a man without help, free among the dead. For the sake of you, who left a garden, I was betrayed to the Jews in a garden, and I was crucified in a garden. See on my face the spittle I received in order to restore to you the life I once breathed into you. See there the marks of the blows I received in order to refashion your warped nature in my image. On my back see the marks of the scourging I endured to remove the burden of sin that weighs upon your back. See my hands, nailed firmly to a tree, for you who once wickedly stretched out your hand to a tree. I slept on the cross and a sword pierced my side for you who slept in paradise and brought forth Eve from your side. My side has healed the pain in yours. My sleep will rouse you from your sleep in hell. The sword that pierced me has sheathed the sword that was turned against you. Rise, let us leave this place. The enemy led you out of the earthly paradise. I will not restore you to that paradise, but I will enthrone you in heaven. I forbade you the tree that was only a symbol of life, but see, I who am life itself am now one with you. I appointed cherubim to guard you as slaves are guarded, but now I make them worship you as God. The throne formed by cherubim awaits you, its bearers swift and eager. The bridal chamber is adorned, the banquet is ready, the eternal dwelling places are prepared, the treasure houses of all good things lie open. The kingdom of heaven has been prepared for you from all eternity. Responsory ℟. Our shepherd, the source of living water, has departed. At his passing the sun was darkened, for he who held the first man captive is now taken captive himself.*Today the Saviour has shattered the bars and burst the gates of death. ℣. He has torn down the barricades of hell and overthrown the power of Satan.* Today the Saviour has shattered the bars and burst the gates of death. Let us pray. Almighty, ever-living God, whose Only-Begotten Son descended to the realm of the dead, and rose from there to glory, grant that your faithful people, who were buried with him in baptism, may, by his resurrection, obtain eternal life. Who lives and reigns with you in the unity of the Holy Spirit, God, for ever and ever. Amen. Let us praise the Lord. – Thanks be to God.
Not sure on official Church position on vision of Bl. Anne Catherine Emmerich (Mel Gibson used heavily in The Passion) but her vision of Holy Saturday is here… https://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/pjc/pjc73.htm
Yes, I thought that too. When you think about it.. the 1050s America was one where great wealth and all sorts of new technologies started like TV that in many ways started to make life “easy” and distracted us and imo started our movement away from God.
Fr Ripperger starts in with this description at WWII. He said it was not the greatest generation even though that’s what we call it.
Yes. He blames the "greatest generation" for not wanting to discipline their children. For letting go of their responsibilities and choosing pleasure and wealth. Its a powerful indictment if true.
Well, overall, considering the world, this may certainly be true. But, yesterday I came across photos online of the May Procession at the parish of my youth. In 1960, there were masses of people attending. Masses of young people participating. It almost made me want to cry, so many people valued this. This was 3 years before I converted.
I believe Fr. Ripperger is generally accurate as far as the shift. It is my generation that went off the rails: drinking, drugs, contraception, abortion, fornication, homosexual lifestyle. All these came out into the open by the 1970s. And we were the baby-boomers. Now, I'm not out to criticize my parents personally, but there must have been some sort of change in parental habits and disciplines that aided this societal shift. Maybe the escape from the Depression, the woundedness of those returning from the battles of WWII, and an decrease in stay-at-home Moms contributed to it all. Certainly an increase in satanic activity in the late '60s and '70s has been noted elsewhere on the forum. At this point understanding the unraveling is of less importance than actually and deliberately engaging in spiritual warfare so as to reverse it. O Mary, Queen of Angels, pray for us!
This is certainly the way I remember the world i grew up in. May processions. Daily Mass. The Holy Name Society. The Sodality of Our Lady. We lived and breathed our Catholic faith. No one was prepared for the seismic upheaval of VII. All of a sudden everything was okay. Birth control was a matter of conscience. Attending non-Catholic ceremonies was okay. No more forbidden books....the list goes on. The "spirit" of Vatican II has a lot to answer for. In one year from 1967 to 1968 the nuns lost their habits. The Berrigan Brothers were protesting Vietnam Nam. The bishops were in open rebellion against the pope. And drugs were everywhere. And the Mass was no longer the Mass. Wholesale carnage of our faith. In a matter of a few years. Thats why Malachi Martin's book Windswept House makes so much sense.
This is excellent analysis. But we baby boomers sure were quick to go off the rails. We were ripe for rebellion. I can't fault my parents. They held the line and insisted on Catholic values (which to my shame I mocked back then) but the cultural pull waS just so strong among our generation few resisted it. By God's mercy many of us found our way back. But many did not. So many of my friends. Don't need it don't want it don't believe it. What an awful time it was.
It was truly awful. I was awful to my grandmother, I have at least 10 friends who did not come back. I pray for them often.
I believe Satan and his Legions were released from Hell to do their best to Defeat the Church around the time of the first great Modern Age of Marian Apparitions. So around the time of places like La Salette and Lourdes. They were given a period of times to over come the Church, with the permission of God. Something happened around the end of the '50 the start of the '60's gave them some kind of great break through. My mother and father were sure (they were Traditionalists) that it was all the fault of Vatican 2. But I doubt it. But there is no doubt there was a huge acceleration of evil in the '60's. The same thing , only far,far,far worse is happening today. A Great Breakthrough of Evil into the World. Malachi Martin described it as , 'Grace draining from the World'. I think Pope St John Paul 2 spoke of a Great Confrontation between Good and Evil.
yes, the prophecy of Pope Leo XIII said the same thing: that Satan was allowed time to destroy the Church, with the permission of God.
There is so much we don't know and will only know in heaven. But I think the best narrative to understand events that took place was from Our Lady of Good Success. Also from those of Tre Fontane in Rome (Our Lady of Revelation)
