I recieved a PM about these messages which is a cause of very considerabele concern as follows: Dear Padraig, I understand you have locked the warning second coming thread, and I wanted to write you about something pertaining to that site that has me very concerned, and I think worthy of addressing on this forum. Once a week, I go to a local Adoration chapel for a Holy Hour. Someone who also frequents that Chapel is a follower of the warning second coming, and leaves printouts of the messages in the chapel every week. I was very alarmed when I saw a stack of printouts of this message: Jesus reveals Plenary Indulgence for total absolution http://www.thewarningsecondcoming.com/j ... bsolution/ The message claims that one can get total absolution, a plenary indulgence and "the power of the Holy Spirit" simply by saying the prayer mentioned in that message for seven consecutive days. Personally I think this is serious enough to call attention to and warn people about here. This could be gravely dangerous to souls who think they can get absolution with a series of prayers, and not have to go to confession. I just wanted to pass this information along and let you decide what you want to do with it. So in this circumstance I am reopening discussions on the subject but I do ask for the greatest charity towards , Maria herself. I might add that my own understanding is that on her own forum anyone posting anything critical has their posts quietly deleted; which is wrong and encourages me to permit open, but charitable discussion here....
My car is finally fixed! Glory alleluia! Anyway I think I will send Maria a message and if she is willing have a talk with her on St Patricks Day. Maybe she will even let me do an interview which I will post it here; raising some of your concerns...and giving her replies.... We will see, II will let you know. Thank you all for your prayers about the car.weeeeeeeeeeeeeee I am so happy.... :lol: :lol:
Sooo happy for your car being fixed padraig!! I can feel in your email how happy you are!! I'm sure it's a big worry off your mind, and you can get back into your routine of daily mass. My check engine light just went on again, so please keep my car in your prayers as I can't afford a repair!! As for this indulgence, I can't imagine a good spiritual advisor would allow that to be published. Maybe I'm wrong, but there must be some procedure to follow before it is formally recognized by the church. And yes, confession and prayers for the intentions of the holy father are almost always required. Huge, huge red flag for me. But I don't even read these messages at all, as there have been enough red flags in the past for me. I suggest that people hooked on reading these messages spend their time praying and reading great books by approved saints and venerable people. They can read about the illumination in St Faustina's diary or catholic prophecy in Ven Ann Catherine Emmerich's books. Much better use of their time than getting hooked on these messages.
Padraig, when you closed the forum on this topic I was dissapointed, afterall it(thewarningsecondcoming) was the reason I decided to join this group.In one of my first posts I wrote: 'This site is the best resource for "TWSC".com'. I wrote that because of a google search on the topic, this site was the most predominant for my purposes. Also, thewarningsecondcoming site (TWSC) is a big deal as it is most persuasive to everyone who knows about Garabandal except the most well informed,, well read Catholics and it is a big deal, and this group was addressing it. Please dont let a personal relationship with Maria get in the way of this forum. There should be a way for you to keep both and seperate. But if not, which is more important? I think it important to keep a discussion going on about thewarningsecondcoming, as there are a plethora of new messages each week, some giving credence to falsity which must be discussed for the advantage of those who are just coming upon that site and reading only the current messages. The question begs should Ned Dougherty, Vasula Ryden or Anne the Lay Apostle start writing to you and then become miffed, would you then start closing threads also? From the internet radio show mp3 talked about in the other thread: http://www.blessedmotherschildren.com/uploads/3/0/2/8/3028145/october11mariavisionary.mp3 Maria spoke that her Archbishop that she was using as a spiritual director(she had a succesion of them) had told her that the Jesus's use of the word 'despair' as to what he felt, was an indicator of its falsity. This is true, but not apparent to Maria since she is not familar with the writings of either St. Thomas Acquinas(Shorter Summa), detailing the personhood of Jesus. Supposedly later Jesus told her that the word was a euphemism he was using for another term. So thus it becomes easily explained away for where else will she turn. Jesus had from the very beginning the beautific vision of God. His soul already enjoyed from the beginning of its existence the happiness of seeing God face to face. Hence there was no need in Christ for the virtues of faith or hope. He did not need faith, for he saw God face to face; and he did not need hope for what he already possessed. Therefore Jesus can not feel despair, the loss of all hope. Despair is what Judas felt when he committed suicide after betraying Jesus. It (despair) is the loss of all hope. St Thomas Acquinas calls despair --sin. Jesus being infinitely all knowing and smarter than all humans would never use the word despair(in any language) in a message to us for describing what he felt. For one they are not part of what he feels as taught and laid out by one or more of the Church Doctors. Further, it goes against the teachings of his bride the Church. Most certainly the Jesus of Maria Divine Mercy is not our Jesus. Familiarity with the teachings of the Church is an inoculation , unfortunately Maria has no such grounding such that even when such things are explained to her, they must fly over her head or just add to her troubles. I have noticed or wanted to comment on other troubling aspects, but for a later time.
The message on the 26th January spoke about the third part of the final secret of Fatima which is that satan will eventually find his way into the Vatican. Jesus, apparently, speaks about how this was was kept from public knowledge and says "Why My church felt the need to dampen the truth when it was needed to strengthen the faith of My children everywhere is known only to them". Really? Only known to them? Are we supposed to believe that Jesus spoke these words? So maybe God isn't all knowing. I commented before about how I'm on the fence with regards the veracity of the messages but then this comes along....
I think if I had a series of huge prophetic visions and proclaimed them I would expect to get crucified. Jesus Himseff said, 'Your ancestors killed the prophets'. Any saint who has proclaimed visions has got pasted for it, St Margaret Mary (of Sacred Heart fame) got beaten up by her sisters (fellow nuns) who made her life hell St Faustina (Divine Mercy) seemed to have been used as a football by her fellow nuns, Padre Pio probably the greatest mytic of modern times was tortured by the Vatican/Church authorities. So getting martyred for this stuff is not exceptional , its to be expected, the call to prophecy is a call to martrydom per se, its par for the course.... The is a difference between critique and uncharitable abuse . I think its perfectly right and fine that people should express their reservations. It natrual and its human ..and in answering such critque the visionary has the chance to put things straight. Enemies of the Catholic Church have always criticised it for being cnsoroius and authoritarian, clampning down on free speech. I never found it so. Its the enemies of the Church who I have found to be intolerant and small minded. So anyway I think so long as it is done with charity a discussion is fine. But charity. charity, charity... I think also if I owned a forum where I was declaring such visions I would not delete posts that were critical. Free speech and discussion are fine so long as they are charitable.... Its bit of a balancing act sometimes... :wink:..as they say we must kick the ball, not the player...
most current message: http://www.thewarningsecondcoming.com/virgin-mary-hatred-is-hatred-there-are-no-two-types-they-are-the-same/ Faux Blessed Virgin Mary: Hatred comes from the deceiver. Lies are spread by the evil one, who uses weak souls to undermine the truth. Hatred is hatred. There are no two types. They are the same. St Thomas Acquinas talks of at least two types of hatred. Hatred of good and hatred of evil. For instance,valid hatred of evil keeps us from sin. Proverbs 6:16 16 There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him: 17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, 18 a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, 19 a false witness who pours out lies and a person who stirs up conflict in the community. and numerous other old Testament quotes, Prov 13:15 Sir 15:11 Sir 15:13 Ps 139:22 but lets look at New Testament quotes Hebrews 1:9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.” Romans 9:13 (Mal 1:3) “Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?” declares the LORD. “Yet I have loved Jacob, 3 but Esau I have hated, and I have turned his hill country into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals.” Romans 12:9 "Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good."
Mother Teresa of Calcutta once said, “If you judge people, you have no time to love them.” We walk a fine line between condeming the evil that men do and attempting to judge the evil that lies in mens heart. For; Matthew 7:2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. To, 'Hate wickedness,' yes; but never to hate the wicked. Matthew 11:29 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
Padraig, why did you quote that verse in response to RB2's post? I'm probably misreading your intent, but I got the impression you were implying that he was judging Maria's soul. He never even mentions her, so... Now that you've befriended Maria, I hope as in the past, that we can continue to address the content of the messages without it being construed as a judgment on her soul. The point RB2 made about about the messages saying there's only one type of hatred, while St. Thomas Aquinas explains there's two, deserves attention. RB2 goes on to highlight Scripture itself, how it distinguishes between righteous hatred and evil hatred. Jesus, Who is the Word, would not contradict Himself by emphatically stating hatred is always a bad thing. The messages are filled with contradiction after contradiction. I venture to say the average Catholic knows Scripture, but it's more of a vague understanding, rather than specifics. They're definitely not up on St. Thomas Aquinas. RB2 bringing up these issues is in service to them. He's addressing questions they don't know enough to ask, but they ought to. There comes a day when it's time to use god-given reason, and have the guts to say these messages are false, and I don't care if I'm labeled a close-minded, intolerant, judgmental jerk for saying so.
Thanks Rain you took the words right out of my mouth. Like I said three posts previous up. I joined this forum because it seemed the best resource on 'thewarningsecondcoming' in additon to other things. But I may just move on rather than being frustrated as a member here. I'll give it some time.
I'm sorry for upsetting you both, please forgive me. :? Especially for calling anyone a 'a close-minded, intolerant, judgmental jerk ' what was I thinking ? :shock: :wink:
Padraig, clearly you didn't call anybody those names. The labels I mentioned referred to a common mindset today, where a person who believes that the truth is knowable, and therefore certain things can be dismissed or embraced, is lam blasted as close minded, arrogant, judgmental, uncharitable, intolerant...the list is a long one. Don't get caught in the relativist trap where the motto is the truth is unknowable, therefore everything is tolerated. I felt like a little of that was going on here, but as far as I'm concerned we're still copacetic. 8)
Dont go Hollywood on us. Foregoing the members of this forum for celebrities. The members of this forum create the content that make this forum what it is. If you want all the gravy, just dont push everyone away from the table.
Back to the messages from The European Seer's website. http://www.thewarningsecondcoming.com/virgin-mary-no-one-will-prevent-the-book-of-truth-being-revealed-to-the-world/ Each soul is loved equally sounds right to modern democratic sensibilities, but is it? I say no. God loves everyone completely, to their fullest capacity, but not equally. Imagine two buckets. Bucket A is a five gallon bucket. Bucket B is a one gallon bucket. If you filled each one to capacity with water which one would receive more? Bucket A, the one that holds five gallons. Which one would receive less? Bucket B, the one that holds one gallon. Are both filled with equal amounts of water? No. Are both filled completely, to their fullest capacity? Yes. Imagine the soul as the buckets. Imagine the water as God’s love. Each person is loved completely, and fully, but not in equal amounts. The Virgin Mary’s capacity for love is huge. I dare say God pours out His love to her in generous proportions and the amount of love He gives to her is greater than all rest. St. John is singled out in scripture as the apostle Jesus loved. He had a bucket with a very large capacity, as do the saints. Some people’s capacity to accept love is very small. Maybe they can only hold a teaspoon full, but if they accept God’s love, they can be filled with very little. Yet, His love fills them to capacity, they couldn't hold a drop more, and that's enough. This isn’t a novel idea. I've heard similar analogies made. St. Thomas Aquinas was of the opinion God loved some more than others. Scripture points to this as well. Romans 9:9-21 For this is the word of promise: According to this time will I come; and Sara shall have a son. And not only she. But when Rebecca also had conceived at once, of Isaac our father. For when the children were not yet born, nor had done any good or evil (that the purpose of God, according to election, might stand,) Not of works, but of him that calleth, it was said to her: The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written: Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated. What shall we say then? Is there injustice with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses: I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy; and I will shew mercy to whom I will shew mercy. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith to Pharao: To this purpose have I raised thee, that I may shew my power in thee, and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore he hath mercy on whom he will; and whom he will, he hardeneth. Thou wilt say therefore to me: Why doth he then find fault? for who resisteth his will? O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it: Why hast thou made me thus? Or hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump, to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? Recall from earlier in the discussion, how the messages on The Warning Second Coming emphatically declare that there is only one kind of hatred: If hatred is hatred, it comes from the deceiver, and there are no two types, how do you explain the fact that God says He hated Esau? Yet another contradiction.
JESUS DEIGNED TO teach me this mystery. He set before me the book of nature; I understood how all the flowers He has created are beautiful, how the splendor of the rose and the whiteness of the Lily do not take away the perfume of the little violet or the delightful simplicity of the daisy. I understood that if all flowers wanted to be roses, nature would lose her springtime beauty, and the fields would no longer be decked out with little wild flowers. And so it is in the world of souls, Jesus' garden. He willed to create great souls comparable to lilies and roses, but He has created smaller ones and these must be content to be daisies or violets destined to give joy to God's glances when He looks down at His feet. Perfection consists in doing His will, in being what He wills us to be.' St Therese of the Child Jesus
The words of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ: Revelations 22 v18-21 'For I testify to every one that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book: If any man shall add to these things, God shall add unto him the plagues written in this book. And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from these things that are written in this book. He that giveth testimony of these things, saith, Surely I come quickly: Amen. Come, Lord Jesus'. The teachings of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church There will be no further Revelation CCC 66 "The Christian economy, therefore, since it is the new and definitive Covenant, will never pass away; and no new public revelation is to be expected before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ." [DV 4; cf. 1Tim 6:1; Titus 2:13] The words of 'Maria, Divine Mercy' on a new book of divine revelation purportedly from Jesus Christ:
Oh no, I JUST wrote a VERY lenghty post right here, and I just lost it. We have often said here that when that happens we wonder if it isn't old Stan somehow making our fingers hit the wrong key...man, I am sick, now I have to try to redo the whole message. I just spent about 20 minutes on it. I should do the big ones in Word and then paste them over as this has happened to me many, many times. So I also think it may be intervention. Sometimes I think it is my angel when I am writing an email, say, to someone and it is criticizing perhaps...accidently something happens, then I think perhaps it wasn't meant to be sent. But on this forum, I think it is the opposite. I think that when Stan really doesn't want us to post something, he somehow gets us to screw up. I just screwed up and my huge post addressing a lot of issues that would not make him too happy is now gone. I have to start over. I plan to do it in Word this time. Just in writing this post here my letters have been reversing and transposing like crazy. I have had to make numerous corrections. Maybe its just because I am upset on losing my real post...or is Stan trying to make me "screw up" this one too?
Ok, here I go again, re-writing the big post that Stan made me lose (I think). Doing it in Word first… It started with a comment to RB2’s post I quoted above… RB2, I think you are perhaps misunderstanding Padraig’s intentions here. I’ll get back to that, but first, I want to say that I too am glad that Padraig has reopened this thread. I think there is a need, and clearly some have voiced that need right here. Since I have been gone for a couple of weeks, I have had the chance to read this entire “new” thread from beginning to this point, and I see that the same concerns as before are still fresh, and that many are indeed looking for help and answers. There are people who have made it here because of Maria’s site in one way or another. Some have come looking for explanations they may not be getting elsewhere, some are here wondering what we are all upset about, and some are here because they have nowhere else to go, being banned from posting any further comments on her Facebook page. Imagine the frustration, and even hurt, or anguish of posting a concern or asking about something that puzzles you about a message, only to be banned from further discussions? When I decided to ask some questions there and was promptly banned for being “hostile” (when I was only pointing out issues and asking for discussion), well I had this forum to come back to. I know there are at least one or two others who this also happened to, who ended up on our forum so they could continue talking to someone. Jose was one of them, and now a new member Joseph said that Maria’s site brought him here in some way. So I think we need to continue to allow talk about the messages here and address, without banning, the concerns of those who have them, whether positive or negative. I also agree, Padraig, that we should practice Charity Charity Charity! I think you may have to repeat this over and over as new people move in and out of this topic thread. We do need to try to keep the discussions on the messages themselves, not about Maria or her credibility. Why? Because we do not KNOW what that is yet. If she is fabricating all this just for her own gain and for attention, well then I can understand people wanting to attack her (although instead we should pray for her). But if she is not doing that, and these messages are not of the origin she thinks they are, then she is a victim, and certainly should not be further attacked by anyone here, and be prayed for all the more. I think this is where the understanding needs to be clarified. Padraig, correct me if I am wrong about this, but I believe that Maria contacted Padraig here again recently…I ask those reading this, why? Was it just to be removed from the member list, or was it for more? Did Padraig start the dialog? No matter, but dialog has begun it seems. And it is none of our business, though Padraig has offered up the knowledge of its existence to us because he would like our support in perhaps some further communication with Maria herself, in the form of an interview or some other means if he can manage it. She doesn’t even participate in her own facebook page discussions that I have ever seen, so this is interesting that he may be able to have a few words with her. He needs that to better evaluate her, assess her situation, and discern her real role in all this. Why do we ask Padraig for advice and insight, why do we listen to him (or to each other for that matter)? Well, because Padraig has a lot of knowledge, and a lot of experience with things that perhaps some of us don’t. That is why he started this forum to begin with, to help others and himself along their paths to Mary and to God. Anyway, Padraig is here for us, and now he may be here for Maria in some way. That’s good, I think. Now, back to the discussion of the messages. I too was very taken aback when I read the message about the plenary indulgence. I was quite shocked that this was posted. I would be very surprised if any priest would have approved a message like that, so I am guessing that it was posted as it was without any screening or approval. The question: is there any plenary indulgence out there now that does not include going to confession – is a good one. Is there? I don’t know of any, but my knowledge is very limited. Could God grant a plenary indulgence in the way the message describes? Well, sure, God can do anything He wants. But is it His habit to do something like that? No. Now, I do know that her messages also sometimes speak directly to non-Catholic Christians who do not believe in confessional-confession, but even in this way the message falls short. Nowhere in the prayer or in the entire body of the message, does confessing your sins get mentioned in any context. Nowhere does it say to ask for forgiveness of your sins, even the “one-on-one” way. So to be granted a plenary indulgence without asking for God’s forgiveness is very strange indeed, no matter how you look at it. Now, if I said that on the Facebook page, I would be banned from further posting, and the post would be removed. That is why we need to keep this going, in a charitable way. As long as thousands are being drawn to the messages, I think we should be open to discussing them here. Thank you Padraig, for seeing that and for doing something about it.
