Creation or Evolution theories

Ok, its up and running! Lets hear what you have to say, and don't forget to cut and paste your arguments over here so we can find them later! BE NICE AND POLITE PEOPLE! THIS IS NOT A LIVE OR DIE DISCUSSION!

 

Adam and Eve were created together in God's image,...how can anyone argue the fact that the Bible tells us God made us in His own image. Does God have to limit Himself to creating an ape in His image in order to evolve??
Would not this insult the very essence of God and limit His omnipotence? Do animals have eternal souls?
In Genesis it states God breathed life into Adam. Can one argue at some point God breated His very life and image into into a beast at some point? Where does the soul come into play with evolution? Humans have souls,...animals do not.

 

Did the ape parents get to stay in the garden of eden, or were they thrown out too?

 

Hi Mothersuperior7,

Thanks for opening this thread. I did not dare to do it because this is supposed to be a forum about the Mother of God but knowing that some people are struggling whit this issue I think it is a good idea to put things clear.

I suggest anybody interested to read first this information to know the position of the Catholic Church about this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_evolution

I will post some ideas later but, please, feel free to ask whatever you want regarding evolution and our faith and I will do my best to try to show that there is no contradiction between the two.

 

Look at a tiny ape, the way it hangs on to it's mother for survival. Look at a baby the way it needs to be fed etc. Both need their mother for survival. Most animals need their mother's for survival. And yet, things on the Earth sprout from a seed, they do not begin as an adult life. We know this from plants and everything.. So it appears to me, that everything must have been here in adult form from the very beginning or there would be very limited survival.. Mainly fishes and insects would survive

 

I have trouble with the evolution theory given the absence of the Missing link. Wouldnt evolution be continuous and why wouldn't there be various links then in the chain between men and apes? I have a hard, hard time with this theory. I do believe man has evolved over he years, just not from apes.

 

If the evolution process has been going for this long, why are there still idiots abounding everywhere?

 

I will ask you two questions:

If creationism is true and all species were created ex-nihilo and no evolution was involved

1. why don't we have fossils of the majority of the species of plants and animals existing today?

2. Do you really think that every species was created ex-nihilo somewhere in the depths of a forest?

I wait for your answers.

 

Do you think it is possible that we just haven't recognized them yet? Also, hasn't it been proven that we all do actually come from one set of genes?

I thought science had actually proven this fact. It was on the news a number of years ago..

 

Jose, you didn't answer mine on how babies could survive..

 

Regarding M. Valtorta's writings about evolution there is a major problem in the answer from "Jesus". Peter answer to my post implied that Jesus was answering the main stream and reductionist "science" of the time (1943). But the scientific method suggested by "Jesus" to prove wrong evolution from man is an absolute non sense. If the process took million of years from man to develop from an ancestor, "he" could not suggest to do an experiment or to look at monkeys today and a number of generation. This is ridiculous and that is why I cannot accept this words coming from Jesus. The proposed scientific method is nonsense and I would not expect this kind of mistakes from the Creator.

 

Well, I do not know about fossils from the Cambric from cats, dogs, cows or roses.... Those animals and plants were simply non existing by then.

 

Going by evolution Jose, how did we survive as babies? This is not possible. For me that is a huge flaw from the outset.. Even birds need their mothers for feeding etc.. So adults must have been placed here first..

 

I really do not understand the question about babies. Every species produce progeny from bacteria to plants and animals. By some animals, the offspring need care by the progenitors and by some others not. If this is intended to be a egg-chicken question I do not know how I should understand it properly.

 

Jose, take the first two living things.. be they birds or apes.. They had to come in as babies yes? They needed to be fed yes? how did this take place? We see how much the womb is needed for life in many species.. so how did they grow and survive outside of a womb... and even taking that out of it ... How then did they survive once they were here.. monkies need their mother's milk.. They need to be kept warm. A panda when she has a baby reaches out and the first one she feels she picks up, the other dies if there are two..

This is the kind of thing I mean. It is not about the chicken or the egg.. The chicken had to be here first on the egg would not have survived.. Unless buried someone.. But that only answers this species..

 

I always think it's interesting to hear different theories on creation. I always keep it simple. I think both theories are compatible other than everything was started by chance. Who can fathom God? Obviously you have fossils so we know the earth is very old. But when God created the world in 6 days who's to say how long a day is? It could be a billion years in his time! Plus I think (stressing the word THINK) that God allowed everything to start including the first humans but they did not have souls. Then I believe that God decided he wanted a human similar to Him in feeling, thinking and having a soul and thus he created the Garden of Eden and Adam with a soul. I know I won't know anything until I die and I'm perfectly happy with that. I know you won't convince someone who doesn't believe in God otherwise.

God Bless!

 

Mary's Child,

I think I understand now as a critic to creationism. What you mean is that if they would have been created ex-nihilo as babies they would have not survived. Well, yes, but probably the creationist would argue that the Creator made several adult individual from the same species and let then procreate.

 

From The Life of Jesus Christ and Biblical Revelations to Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich volume 1
Sister Anne Emmerich was a mystic that lived from 1774-1826 She saw the events of the old testament and new in her mind like a movie from the time that she was a young child. She became a nun and suffered the stigmata and only took the Holy Eucharist as nourishment for years at a time. Here is her account of Adam and Eve
I saw Adam created, not in Paradise, but in the region in which Jerusalem was subsequently situated. I saw him come forth glittering and white from a mound of yellow earth, as if out of a mold. The sun was shining and I thought (I was only a child when I saw it) that the sunbeams drew Adam out of the hillock. He was, as it were, born of the virgin earth. God blessed the earth, and it became his mother. He did not instantly step forth from the earth. Some time elapsed before his appearance. He lay in the hillock on his left side, his arm thrown over his head, a light vapor covering him as with a veil. I saw a figure in his right side, and I became conscious that it was Eve, and that she would be drawn from him in Paradise by God. God called him. The hillock opened, and Adam stepped gently forth. There were no trees around, only little flowers. I had seen the animals also, coming forth from the earth in pure singleness, the females separate from the males. And now I saw Adam borne up on high to a garden, to Paradise. God led all the animals before him in Paradise, and he named them. They followed him and gamboled around him, for all things served him before he sinned. All that he named, afterward followed him to earth. Eve had not yet been formed from him.
I saw Adam in Paradise among the plants and flowers, and not far from the fountain that played in its center. He was awaking, as if from sleep. Although his person was more like to flesh than to spirit, yet he was dazzlingly white. He wondered at nothing, nor was he astonished at his own existence. He went around among the trees and the animals, as if he were used to them all, like a man inspecting his fields.
Near the tree by the water arose a hill. On it I saw Adam reclining on his left side, his left hand under his cheek. God sent a deep sleep on him and he was rapt in vision. Then from his right side, from the same place in which the side of Jesus was opened by the lance, God drew Eve. I saw her small and delicate. But she quickly increased in size until full-grown. She was exquisitely beautiful. Were it not for the Fall, all would be born in the same way, in tranquil slumber.

 

Jose,.I think it was a good idea to start this thread,..although it was started by MS,..it was your idea and maybe it is good to clarify Catholic belief and debunk any heresy. Big ? I think it does have to do with the Mother of God, because as a Catholic we believe Mary to be the new Eve

 

Yes, you are correct - you are talking about mitochondrial Eve ( one gets their mitochondrial genes only from the mother)