Purgatory and The Final Judgment

I'm sorry if the answer to this is obvious to every Catholic; but can anyone tell me what relationship is established between the purifying fire of purgatory and the judgment of each soul in the final judgment, if purgatory purifies us from sins that were not atoned for in life; yet these sins will carry some weight in the final judgment; how much does Christ judge our works?

 

Good question.

Actually, the answer is not obvious to me.

 

Good question! I will try asking my priest to see what he says!

 

I think it all may depend on the ripple effect of our lives!

I once asked my holy parish priest about the final judgement as compared to our personal Judgement, he said something along the lines as below and he spoke of Elvis Presley.
He said .... Elvis Presley has been judged at his personal judgement, and now Elvis awaits his final judgement; At his final judgement all that he has caused through his notoriety and fame (be that good or bad) will be weighed, that is, it will be brought into consideration!

I think Father believed, we will be judged as we have affected others in the final Judgement.

I have much respect for my holy parish priest but still I can not understand how our personal judgement can differ from our general judgement, especially when God knows everything at our personal judgement; way before our general judgement.

This is a dilemma.

 

This is a great and thought thread! Certainly the concept of purgatory is not easy to explain and I believe our Protestant brethren don’t accept it. But with that said, my understand of it was that it’s a state (place?) where a soul goes after death where even after receiving God’s mercy in the forgiveness of sins , must “pay” the temporal effects of these sins. So it’s not that the sin was unforgiven….it was, but there are still effects of that sin that require the cleansing. I believe this is why there are indulgences…… when one receives an indulgence….it completely “pays” the temporal effects of sin. My maybe not so perfect example… a kid throws a ball through window…breaking it.. He seeeks the owners forgiveness and is given it, but still needs to pay (purgatory) to repair window. But if he does good works and charity, perhaps the owner pays it for him because of that charity (the indulgence)

I also understand purgatory is this state (place);where the soul goes after death to be completely free and detached from even the slightest bit of sin. Sin separates us from God…. So even the slightest bit would not allow us to. E in his presence. So purgatory in this case. is a state that satisfies both the mercy of God, but also the justice of God. Since souks can no longer in a sense convert here, it’s why we pray for them.

Now this is where it gets a little squishy for me … do souls that died in a state of mortal sin also go to purgatory? Is it a different “level”? They in a sense are not there for purgation purpose, but I guess in this state awaiting the final judgement……to me the final judgement vs this immediate personal judgement is with the final, our soul and body are reunited and we are then sent to heaven or hell depending upon how we lived our lives.

anyhow… long ramble here

appreciate the thought provoking for a Sunday morning

 

It is difficult to portray mystical realities because no matter how careful we are with words, every human analogy we use will be open to misunderstanding and fall short of the reality, sometimes so much so as to appear to fall on its face.

Look for instance at Jesus when He proclaimed the Eucharist when people took to their heels in droves. It was not that Jesus described the Mystical Reality badly, it was simply that the fields of their hearts had to open to the seeds that are planted there. That the Holy Spirit had been permitted to do the ploughing for Jesus to do the planting , so to speak.

So I think it is with all that is Mystical. In understanding it is an understanding of the heart and not simply the head. More than that it is not a static understanding but a dynamic, a growing, deepening understanding. As indeed Mysticism itself is .as Faith itself is dynamic and growing, Constantly dying and being reborn.

And so Jesus compared the Kingdom of God to a Mustard seed, the smallest of all seeds which grows so large it gives shelter to the birds of the air.

So, at the risk of the analogy falling flat on its face or being misunderstood by the listener I would compare Purgatory in human terms to a Remand prison were the prisoner is sent by the Magistrate prior to the Final Trial before the Just Judge (the Final Judgement) . In a similiar way the soul that dies and goes to heaven is remanded, if you will to heaven before the Last Judgement.

The difference between the souls that remanded to heaven or purgatory and the souls after the Final Judgement is that the soul is not reunited to body.

But why does the Good God not simply move on to the Final Judgement when each soul dies, rather than wait till the end of time? I think it is because at the Final Judgement all things and all men will be Judged and sent to their proper place. It is, in a sense a communal Judgement when Creation will be consumed by fire , giving birth to a New Heaven and a New Earth.

Till that takes place , each soul whether it be on Earth , in this valley of Tears, in Remand in Purgatory or even in Hell itself awaiting the Final Trial and Judgement at the End of all things.

Only Two escape this remand period Jesus, who was the Lamb of God and Mary, the Immaculate Conception who both went Body and Soul to Heaven. They did not go to heaven for Remand as they have no sin to answer for.

At the End of all there will be no more Purgatory, for there will be no more need for Remand. Hell shall no longer serve also as a place of remand , but to a place of total Final Punishment.

It is different for the angels. They are pure Spirits and could perfectly choose. Some to God and some to turn away from God.

For the souls that are in the Remand Centre of Purgatory, when they pay off the debts of their crimes they move on to be remanded to heaven to await final judgement.

The Church speaks of these two events as the, 'Particular' and the , 'General', Judgement.

 

There is a Parable of Jesus which describes this whole process very closely.

 

In so many ways, as I walk around the hospital at night time, it reminds me of Purgatory.

At one level no one wants ever to be in a hospital as it is a place of suffering and pain.

At another everyone wants to be in hospital because it is a place of healing and a doorway to a better life.

This I think is particularly true at night time, when people are alone and staring at the ceiling in the half dark alone with their pains and the reality of their condition.

Purgatory is an alone night time. Whereas Life is often a day time hospital where we can run away and hide amongst the bustle and fuss of the bright, busy day.

At night times and in Purgatory we are forced to come face to face with our illness, our sins, our bad choices. There is nowhere to hide. Purgatory, it seems to me is so logical because it a part of a pattern a process. Just as we need hospitals, here on Earth so we need a huge Spiritual Hospital as part of a process of growth. It would seem to more far more logical than to presume, as our Protestant sisters and brothers do, that no such process of healing and growth is necessary. For Purgatory is simply a continuation of what we see here on Earth.

It seems also illogical to say there is no Hell. For by doing so we are saying that we have no choice and that the apparent choices we have are not real, as whatever choices we make result in us reaching the same destination. So life itself, with all its many choices, becomes a travesty, a meaningless dream, with no real purpose or import.

 

One of your clearest, best posts ever, Padraig!

(In my humble opinion. )

 

Thank you Terry. I hope all is well with you and yours. We have just passed through a couple of storms, one of them the worst in 30 years. I meant to go camping this morning but wound up soaked to the skin and unable to budge the camper, so I am back home for the next week.

Man proposes and God disposes.
So that's me at home for the next few days.

I hope you and yours are all well.

 

Thanks for posting this, this channel has some nice videos.

 

They are Mormons producing these videos, so I would be inclined to exercise a little reserve as they are a non Christian sect under the influence of a False Visionary so there is much to be circumspect with.

But so long as the video sticks close to the actual Scripture I am inclined to think , 'Why not?' . Even a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day.

 

Oh really my bad, I didn't think twice about that channel name. As you said, videos seemed to follow the source material so I went with it

But I shouldn't have watched the last video you posted, quite disturbing. And millions believe this

 

Well, I have my beloved wife at my side. Now that chaplaincy has been axed because of vaccine mandates, my parish ministry has gotten busy. I'm preaching at weekend Masses twice a month, making home visitations, Stations of the Cross this coming Lent; with the snow cover departing in another 6 weeks, graveside committals will be on the agenda this spring, and I'm starting a men's group come spring weather, too! In May/June 3 grand-babies will be born which will entail some traveling. Life goes on. God is good!

But, since man proposes and God disposes, we'll have to wait and see how everything plays out! Sorry to hear of your camping cancellation. Maybe in another month, eh?

Safe in the Arms of Mary!

 

The issue is time. Spiritual time has no beginning or end. That is the starting point. And the main point why the mystical is hard to describe.

I know that when you die...you see all your sins and all the world sins.

Its almost looking at hell.

We need to go through this to have the accuser ask for our souls and for God to give perfect judgement.

Maybe at this point/moment purgatory sets in. It might feel like a life time in our journey but it is a fraction of a second in Gods plan.

Then we are sent to heaven or hell.

If we are blessed by Gods grace and go to heaven...all past sins will be erased and forgotten.

It is impossible to go to heaven with sin or even the memory of sin.

That is why we enter heaven clean and happy.

We will at first see family, friends and even those things that were good (animals).

This will be temporary.

Because gradually we will start seeing the spiritual joys of God. From those great joys...we will gradually become one with God.

the end

 

Another doubt I have about purgatory is whether, while there, we can ask God to obtain the conversion of our family members by extending our time there.

 

From what I have read, the souls in Purgatory cannot pray for themselves any longer. They depend on our prayers. They can pray for us in the Church Militant. So I doubt that there will be any chance of praying to God for extending our time there to help family members. That has to be done when we are alive on earth, when we can take on prayers and sufferings for our family members sacrificially.

 

Hi Luan.

My understanding is, we each have several (1) Good Works or Merits, and (2) Several Bad Works, or sins, which deserve punishment.

Now, in Purgatory, (2) is fully expiated, and thus will not be brought up again imo at the Final Judgment.

That leaves (1), the Good Works or Merits each of us have. According to these works, our eternal place in Heaven will be determined.

Hope that helps. God Bless. Below article continues some of those thoughts. Taken from: https://onepeterfive.com/purgatory-saved-fire/

"Chapter 3 of St. Paul’s first epistle to the Corinthians is perhaps the most direct proof in Sacred Scripture of purgatorial fire and merits. According to Catholic doctrine, bad works are penalized by God; bad Christians, whose works are burned up, will therefore suffer loss and be saved only through fire. This is Purgatory and their bad works or sins are why Purgatory is necessary. This doctrine is plainly taught by St. Paul the Apostle.

Every man’s work shall be manifest; for the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work, of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work burn, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.

St. Basil the Great teaches:

I think that the noble athletes of God, who have wrestled all their lives with the invisible enemies, after they have escaped all of their persecutions and have come to the end of life, are examined by the prince of this world; and if they are found to have any wounds from their wrestling, any stains or effects of sin, they are detained. If, however they are found unwounded and without stain, they are, as unconquered, brought by Christ into their rest. (Homilies on the Psalms 7:2)

What could possibly be clearer? The bad Christian is saved only through fire because of his bad works. The good Christian receives a reward from the Lord on that day because of his good works. This text clearly shows that good works done with faith in Christ are necessary post-justification and contribute to the soul’s sanctification. If performed, they entitle us by God’s grace to a heavenly reward, because God is so good. If neglected, they demand punishment, because God is holy."

 

Sins Purged carry no weight at Final Judgement
Purgatory is a state whereby we receive Purification ergo Forgiveness of Sins
which prior to Purification prevent(ed) our entrance into God's Kingdom
I've no fear of Purgatory.. !
I want to be Pure and strive for it this side of my death / Final Judgement
And I accept Purgatory IF God Wills it! --> For reason that I'll go to Heaven!

Some sections of the Bible give us some insight..

St. Pope John Paul II explains Purgatory very well.


Purgatory Is Necessary Purification

Before we enter into full communion with God, every trace of sin within us must be eliminated and every imperfection in our soul must be corrected

At the General Audience of Wednesday, 4 August 1999, following his catecheses on heaven and hell, the Holy Father reflected on Purgatory.
He explained that physical integrity is necessary to enter into perfect communion with God therefore "the term purgatory does not indicate a place, but a condition of existence", where Christ "removes ... the remnants of imperfection".

1. As we have seen in the previous two catecheses, on the basis of the definitive option for or against God, the human being finds he faces one of these alternatives: either to live with the Lord in eternal beatitude, or to remain far from his presence.

For those who find themselves in a condition of being open to God, but still imperfectly, the journey towards full beatitude requires a purification, which the faith of the Church illustrates in the doctrine of "Purgatory" (cf. Catechism of the Catholic Church, n. 1030-1032).

To share in divine life we must be totally purified

2. In Sacred Scripture, we can grasp certain elements that help us to understand the meaning of this doctrine, even if it is not formally described. They express the belief that we cannot approach God without undergoing some kind of purification.

According to Old Testament religious law, what is destined for God must be perfect. As a result, physical integrity is also specifically required for the realities which come into contact with God at the sacrificial level such as, for example, sacrificial animals (cf. Lv 22: 22) or at the institutional level, as in the case of priests or ministers of worship (cf. Lv 21: 17-23). Total dedication to the God of the Covenant, along the lines of the great teachings found in Deuteronomy (cf. 6: 5), and which must correspond to this physical integrity, is required of individuals and society as a whole (cf. 1 Kgs 8: 61). It is a matter of loving God with all one's being, with purity of heart and the witness of deeds (cf. ibid., 10: 12f.)

The need for integrity obviously becomes necessary after death, for entering into perfect and complete communion with God. Those who do not possess this integrity must undergo purification. This is suggested by a text of St Paul. The Apostle speaks of the value of each person's work which will be revealed on the day of judgement and says: "If the work which any man has built on the foundation [which is Christ] survives, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire" (1 Cor 3: 14-15).

3. At times, to reach a state of perfect integrity a person's intercession or mediation is needed. For example, Moses obtains pardon for the people with a prayer in which he recalls the saving work done by God in the past, and prays for God's fidelity to the oath made to his ancestors (cf. Ex 32: 30, 11-13). The figure of the Servant of the Lord, outlined in the Book of Isaiah, is also portrayed by his role of intercession and expiation for many; at the end of his suffering he "will see the light" and "will justify many", bearing their iniquities (cf. Is 52: 13-53, 12, especially vv. 53: 11).

Psalm 51 can be considered, according to the perspective of the Old Testament, as a synthesis of the process of reintegration: the sinner confesses and recognizes his guilt (v. 3), asking insistently to be purified or "cleansed" (vv. 2, 9, 10, 17) so as to proclaim the divine praise (v. 15).

Purgatory is not a place but a condition of existence

4. In the New Testament Christ is presented as the intercessor who assumes the functions of high priest on the day of expiation (cf. Heb 5: 7; 7: 25). But in him the priesthood is presented in a new and definitive form. He enters the heavenly shrine once and for all, to intercede with God on our behalf (cf. Heb 9: 23-26, especially, v. 24). He is both priest and "victim of expiation" for the sins of the whole world (cf. 1 Jn 2: 2).

Jesus, as the great intercessor who atones for us, will fully reveal himself at the end of our life when he will express himself with the offer of mercy, but also with the inevitable judgement for those who refuse the Father's love and forgiveness.

This offer of mercy does not exclude the duty to present ourselves to God, pure and whole, rich in that love which Paul calls a "[bond] of perfect harmony" (Col 3: 14).

5. In following the Gospel exhortation to be perfect like the heavenly Father (cf. Mt 5: 48) during our earthly life, we are called to grow in love, to be sound and flawless before God the Father "at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all his saints" (1 Thes 3: 12f.). Moreover, we are invited to "cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit" (2 Cor 7: 1; cf. 1 Jn 3: 3), because the encounter with God requires absolute purity.

Every trace of attachment to evil must be eliminated, every imperfection of the soul corrected. Purification must be complete, and indeed this is precisely what is meant by the Church's teaching on purgatory. The term does not indicate a place, but a condition of existence. Those who, after death, exist in a state of purification, are already in the love of Christ who removes from them the remnants of imperfection (cf. Ecumenical Council of Florence, Decretum pro Graecis: DS 1304; Ecumenical Council of Trent, Decretum de iustificatione: DS 1580; Decretum de purgatorio: DS 1820).

It is necessary to explain that the state of purification is not a prolungation of the earthly condition, almost as if after death one were given another possibility to change one's destiny. The Church's teaching in this regard is unequivocal and was reaffirmed by the Second Vatican Council which teaches: "Since we know neither the day nor the hour, we should follow the advice of the Lord and watch constantly so that, when the single course of our earthly life is completed (cf. Heb 9: 27), we may merit to enter with him into the marriage feast and be numbered among the blessed, and not, like the wicked and slothful servants, be ordered to depart into the eternal fire, into the outer darkness where "men will weep and gnash their teeth' (Mt 22: 13 and 25: 30)" (Lumen gentium, n. 48).

6. One last important aspect which the Church's tradition has always pointed out should be reproposed today: the dimension of "communio". Those, in fact, who find themselves in the state of purification are united both with the blessed who already enjoy the fullness of eternal life, and with us on this earth on our way towards the Father's house (cf. CCC, n. 1032).

Just as in their earthly life believers are united in the one Mystical Body, so after death those who live in a state of purification experience the same ecclesial solidarity which works through prayer, prayers for suffrage and love for their other brothers and sisters in the faith. Purification is lived in the essential bond created between those who live in this world and those who enjoy eternal beatitude.