Garabandal Objections

I have taken some 'flak' for raising my reservations about Garabandal and it has been suggested by Padraig that I start a new thread rather than risk the continued ire of those on the current Garabandal threads. OK so, if you suspect that the content may make you angry, lose your peace, call me names etc. then it might be better to leave this thread alone.

Background: I became interested in Garabandal in 1977 when I attended a talk given by Joey. I bought a book recommended by him at the talk (and because of this recommendation regard this as a particularly accurate source). Even allowing for the long passage of time, I recall much of what was said by Joey because I was so deeply impressed and because I repeated it on numerous occasions to friends and family members.

Since that time I have read a substantial amount of other material and, since buying my first PC, a decade or so ago, have read and filed much online material away on the subject. Naturally, I came across some 'anti' material on the net and, for several years, dismissed it all. However, some objections raised did hit home and I eventually became neutral on the matter but my reservations have increased over time. I would like to say that I accept absolutely Conchita's sincerity and that I would much prefer to be convinced than not.

For most of my working life I investigated financial crime and discrepancies such as theft, fraud, potential irregularities etc. I became a supervisor and eventually a manager by reason of a naturally inquisitive mind and some abilities in examining information and deciding what constituted evidence and what did not. This is not, of course, a qualification in discernment but is useful to some extent in many matters in life, including to some extent this matter.

I intend to raise my objections one by one rather than all together, which might result in a chaotic thread. I look forward to doing so and to receiving thoughtful responses. I'll be in touch soon.

 

You are a seeker of Truth Steve, which is very admirable. God is truth.

 

SteveD, as always I am here to try to answer any question to the best of my ability. " Occasionally" we don't agree on my answers, lol, but I certainly want you to know I am always willing to try and give you all the information I have at my disposal to help. One of the hardest things I have to deal with is the lack of technology from the 1960's as compared to today. Today ,everything is recorded in one form or another and its easy to retrieve it. People didn't quite do that in the mountains of Garabandal in 1961, so getting "exact" quotes from reliable sources, is the hardest thing because even the different books can have a slightly different slant on the same event or quote. Well ,I'm always about so let the organized chaos begin !

 

1. Bizarre Behaviour and Effects

This matter was the first one that troubled me and it has become an increasing problem over the years in retaining a positive impression of the Garabandal apparitions.
When Our Lady has appeared or appears in other places, the marks of her presence are (fairly predictably) associated with stillness, peace and a prayerful atmosphere.

In contrast at Garabandal there have been bizarre physical effects and powers displayed by the visionaries that clearly distracted those present from prayer calm and stillness, including:

Contortions including sudden backward ‘head snapping’ and the ability to hold this posture for long periods;
The ability to walk backwards at speed over rough terrain (these sort of manifestation are normally associated with possession);
‘Gabbling’ at high speed to the apparition and facial expressions which do not (to me anyway) appear to demonstrate respect and awe;
Falling to the ground in grotesque postures that are difficult to maintain;
Collecting rosaries for blessing (usually accomplished at other apparition sites while they remain in the hands of those using them in prayer);
The heaviness of the visionaries making it impossible to lift them (another manifestation normally associated with possession) and at other times levitating


Now, if your only answer is that ‘God’s ways are not ours’, please don’t bother I already know that. This is a favourite ‘way out’ for the Mormons I sometimes engage in debate and can explain anything away. What I would like to know is why these manifestations have occurred during only this one series of apparitions and never elsewhere and why Our Lady would grant some powers normally associated with possession to persuade observers that the apparitions are genuinely St. Michael or Herself.

(PS I am going away for a few days tomorrow so will not be adding anything for a while)

 

Hi Steve,

Thanks for having the conviction and courage to voice your questions and concerns about Garabandal. Although, I tend to believe G as legitimate, I welcome your line of thought on the matter. I, too, have encountered the narrow minded and know-it-all types here. Go for it.

 

Hi Steve,
Thanks for opening this thread. I think it will be a good place to discuss rigorously and in peace our questions, doubts, concerns and ideas about Garabandal.

 

As I said in another thread, Garabandal is one of the apparitions I have studied the least. I've learned more on this site than ever and Glenn has the patience of a saint. I have had questions that Steve has and really only one or two. I have always been puzzled at the way the children had to throw their heads back so far until I saw an earlier video of the visionaries at Medjugorje where Jacov was seeing our Lady as a 10 yr. old. He was in front of a barrier like an altar compared to the others who could see over the barrier. Then I saw a video of him in another space later during an apparition and he had his head way back just like he had before, except there was no barrier. I've always been very impressed with the photo of the angel giving Conchita the host. I think that speaks volumes. I have not been comfortable with the 'night of screams'. How can a parent allow their child to scream for hours ?? Those are my quibbles.

 

Well, here's some examples of the same and odder behavior.
1. The visionaries of Medjugorje , all heads snap back & up ,just like Garabandal.
2. Bernadette Soubirous ,of Lourdes got on her knees and dug with her hands in the dirt !
3. Juan Diego is asked to gather flowers in his tilma (our Lady of Guadalupe)
4.The apparitions of Our Lady of Akita,were reported in 1973 by Sister Agnes Sasagowa, she got the stigmata and a weeping statue of Mary.
5. The Angel at Fatima,He appeared before them holding a chalice in his hands, above which was suspended a host from which drops of blood were falling into the chalice. The Angel left the chalice suspended in the air and prostrated himself before it in prayer.

So, each apparition has unique ,even bizzare events, but Garabandal has more of them because she was there for 4 years.

 

mother: I don't quite understand your discomfort about the night of screams ,I t fits perfectly into the reason for the apparitions and the messages Mary was delivering. The Blessed Virgin was trying to make a very serious point ,and it worked ! She showed them the future possible Chastisement, if we don't change. It had to be powerful because it is one of the most remembered nights in the 4 years, and the ENTIRE TOWN WENT TO CONFESSION THE NEXT DAY ! I've seen children have nightmares from watching a scary movie, these young girls were shown an unimaginable horror that would effect the world ! I dare say, not one of us here, could have remained calm as adults, and you expect that of parents of scared children ?

 

See? I did not know that the whole town went to confession the next day. That is wonderful. Thanks for explaining that. I appreciate it. And I know that there are MANY MORE apparitions than you name that have strange or weird phenomenon that has happened.

 

Yes, there are many more stories, but those examples were just off the top of my head to prove appoint. Glad you liked the "confession " story. It still bothers Conchita to this day,when I bring it up.

 

Mmm???

 

I believe Garabandal pretty much. it promotes the Eucharist, priests, confession and the Rosary in a powerful way. The main gripe that I have is about Conchita expecting Padre Pio to see the Miracle, if she knew the date then that would mean if the miracle was say this year 2013 then he would be 126 now or thereabouts. That seems a bit odd to me. Sorry if you have answered this before, I do know she was satisfied to hear Pio saw the miracle before he died. But still the age thing I have an issue with.

Again, thanks to Glenn for his tireless work.

 

Indy, I have answered this before,but let me try something different. Imagine YOU have been visited for 4 years by the Blessed Mother herself AND had SEVERAL locutions with JESUS after that. Would you serious doubt anything they told you ? Sure in hind sight we can look back and say " hey why didnt Conchita ,sit down with pen & paper and figure this out ? Maybe she just took it on faith ( ISH 55:8-9 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,neither are your ways my ways,”declares the Lord.9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts." The amazing thing was when she was told he had seen it just before he died, she was not surprised at all. Faith.

 

I don't know who the "know it all types" are here , heck you might be talking about me,lol, but please realize some people have put in a tremendous amount of time for research and reading,over many years,so they have a better understand of this apparition and its messages. I have found many levels of understanding here,that is to be expected.

 

I have only encountered kind christian people on this forum, some of us may be zealous in our approach in defending what we see as truth, after years and years of searching through the facts, we may be a bit over zealous in what we have found to be true.
So, that being said, SteveD, you have stated you believe in Medjugorje, I believe. It's true the Blessed Virgin blesses religious objects while the people there have them in their hands, but at Garabandal she kissed the religious objects, and I believe promised prodigies by theses kissed objects. I think Glenn has stated that he was cured by this? I think that this is a case apart for Garabandal. I remember one story of someone bringing a compact at Garabandal and they put it on the table. I mean a ladies compact, come on! But Our Lady asked for it first and it turned out to be a compact that they used to carry the Blessed Sacrament in {to hide it} during the war.
As for the running at great speed, this phenomena has happened at Medjugorje, first with the visionaries and I've read conversion stories from Medjugorje about that happening to pilgrims there. I just posted a video a while ago on another thread where it happened recently to a crippled woman on Apparition Hill. And I have no idea why! I've always been impressed though with the marching rosaries at Garabandal, Our Lady teaching them to say the rosary slowly and to meditate on the mysteries{the villagers had no idea what the mysteries were till then, they thought you just said the prayers.} No one could stop these girls, Mary Loli's sleeve brushed someone once and they were knocked over. It always seemed to say to me that MARY was raising her army, showing the power of the rosary. Just a few thoughts after having searched and sifted through facts now for a good 40 years now.

 

I must of missed this Glen. Please tell me about your healing or where I can find it to read up on it.

 

It is contained in the "How I met Joey " story. Its on the Garabandal News thread.

 

Oh Glen.. Everyone can learn Patience and Tolerance.. two fruits of The Holy Spirit.

 

I am surely not a "know it all", but I know enough to have faith in Garabandal