Regarding Medjugorje, again, many people do not really know anything about it. Poeple just accept it blindly and sentimentally, despite all warnings from Jugoslavian bishops starting from mid-1980s. Yet people do not obey warnings. In the last 30+ years, the spirit of Medjugorje was a spirit of deliberate disobedience and Catholic heresy. If people knew just a few truly problematic issues with it, and if they knew, for example, how Croatian word Medjugorje translates into one old Hebrew language idiom, many would froze instantly in fear! Or, started to think. Seriously. So for those who do not know, here is the truth: the exact translation of the Hebrew word found in Bible in the Book of Revelation — the Hebrew word Har-Magedon (from which we use Greek translation Armageddon) — is same as Medjugorje in the Croatian language. Har = hill Mageddo = a furrow, a hollow between Gorje = hill Medju = a furrow, a hollow between It is the place directly mentioned below the verse mentioning evil spirits (who represent the false prophet among many) going around the world to gather kings at the place which in Hebrew language means Har-Magedon. (Revelation 16.16). St John given us the name and meaning in his native Hebrew language, but not location. If we translate Hebrew meaning Har-Magedon into Croatian meaning, we get Medju-gorje. So there you go, ladies and gentlemen. If nothing else, here is one more problem for you think about when thinking about Medjugorje. Try to solve these problems below when and if you advocate the Medjugorje case. One problem is the meaning of the word. How you reconcile that? Do you know Croatian language? If you do, analyse yourself and be truly terrified. Second problem is related to a false prophet — obviously, devil disguising as a prophet. In Medjugorje, what we have, who allegedly appears there? Why St John writes that evil spirits go around the world to gather people there in Armageddon? Is it for them to be 'uplifted up in Heaven'? Or to gather them in large numbers like blind sheep, and do something much worse when there is no more time to escape? Is it possible the Book of Revelation really warns faithful about future's turning points? Our Lady, in her true apparitions through the last several centuries, was the true prophet of our times. He warned clearly and succinctly of dangers which will face humanity, and people did not listen to her words. Now suddenly we have this 'apparition' in Medjugorje, that concedes with warnings from the Book Revelation. Is this apparition in Medjugorje true apparition of Our Lady? No it is not. Why? Remember that God gives everyone what they really want. For those not interested in real truth, they get a mock-up of the truth. For those not willing to listen and obey what Our Lady of Fatima wanted, they get what the devil disguised as apparition of Medjugorje wants. However, no matter how hard to swallow this may be, be aware to stay away from Medjugorje when the time described in Revelation 16.18 comes!
Perhaps this is the most idiotic post I have read on this forum. If not it comes close. I was going to ask what country are you from but actually can I ask what planet are you from? Pathetic!
I am telling the truth. You may research yourself, instead of making dismissive remarks with no substance. It is worthwhile to say that St John in the apocalypse is concerned about the state of affairs of faith. He describes events through the language of and symbols of faith, what happens with the Christian faith, the faithful, and those who do not flow faith, who are treacherous, then those who are persecuting it, etc. He is focused on the Lamb (Christ), how Lamb opens the seals of the scroll (book) of future and what will that mean firstly from the perspective of religious affairs. Thus all the names and places in the Book of Revelation are somehow related the state of affairs of faith and faithful in the future. The word Har-Magedon is indeed translated as Medju-gorje in Croatian language. Furthermore, as is case with many subtle Biblical references, that meaning also has a twist — it may be the geographic place, but also a place of worship, or, venue place. Because kings are assembled there by invitation. So does the name also describes the possible place of worship or particular venue place — albeit a dangerous one? Let us see at the shape of the church in Medjugorje (see above) — it has two separated towers with a furrow in between them, which again implies the same meaning: Har-Magedon, or a hill split with a furrow / two hills with a space in between them. That church design is not very common in those lands. Not only that Medjugorje describes the geographic description of a place on a map, but also the epicentre of it, the very temple where high among men (kings, in terms of faith) will be gathered. Descriptions fits perfectly, and shoes fit both legs. I can go further and analyse the meaning of word Podbrdo, also a place in medjugorje, where first so called apparition happened. Podbrdo means Pod-brdo. Again we have Har (=hill, which is same as =brdo, which is same as =gorje), and Pod means underneath, in the foot of the hill, or, the bottom of the furrow. All three meanings fit the place. This is no accident. Describes the geographic place. Describes the 'apparition' place. Describes the venue place / temple where high among men will be gathered. Just before the name, scripture mentions the false prophet, and people lured (deceived?) to assemble there. False prophet is not very common term in the Bible, and it happens just a verse above Har-Magedon. Now, the real issue here is do we believe Bible enough to take a possibility that we live in end times described in the Book of Revelation — based not on this possibility alone, but on other events than happened around the globe during last decades? If we do not believe that, and do not believe that Book of Revelation concerns us at all, then on what basis we believe that the apparition in Medjugorje is valid? And so forth.
I suspect most members will not be interested in this, but I wonder if we have a FULL ON Medjugorge defender? who knows all the arguements. Like Glenn does with Garabandal so admirably . It just seems too hot to question. I feel I can question Garabandal. I can question Vatican II. I can even question the direction of Pope Francis. But to question Medjugorge View attachment 2413
You see the problem: local bishop in Spain has confirmed that in the apparition in Garabandal, it was examined, and there is nothing against the morals, and nothing against the doctrine of faith. And that is quite something. The reason Garabandal is not approved yet, is because of the promised Great Miracle, which has not yet taken place. Conchita is still alive, and we can be patient still. But even if the miracle does not happen, there is doctrinally nothing wrong with all other messages of Garabandal. The Medjugorje is the opposite. Jugoslavian bishops have warned many times: the event is not supernatural (not from Heaven). There are serious issues about the doctrine of faith, and serious issues about the morals. This is a serious problem. And you see, it puts me to thinking rather seriously: you say you can doubt Garabandal, but to doubt Medjugorje (what, you do not dare)? If you need to take sides, you should first stick to the apparition that testifies the truth and is doctrinally sound. But you choose the other way round. And this is the problem that fans of Medjugorje cannot comprehend and do not want to hear about.
You should remember the wise words of Rabban Gameliel in Acts; Acts 5:34-40 34 But a Pharisee in the council named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law held in honor by all the people, stood up and gave orders to put the men outside for a little while. 35 And he said to them, “Men of Israel, take care what you are about to do with these men. 36 For before these days Theudas rose up, claiming to be somebody, and a number of men, about four hundred, joined him. He was killed, and all who followed him were dispersed and came to nothing. 37 After him Judas the Galilean rose up in the days of the census and drew away some of the people after him. He too perished, and all who followed him were scattered. 38 So in the present case I tell you, keep away from these men and let them alone, for if this plan or this undertaking is of man, it will fail; 39 but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You might even be found opposing God!” So they took his advice, 40 and when they had called in the apostles, they beat them and charged them not to speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go. View attachment 2419
That's a foreign concept to me. Here's what I know, just for my part. I was a rather disenchanted Protestant -- having been a totally involved one, "born again", teaching at Christian schools that were each represented by dozens of denominations. I knew the drill. But I had eventually become lost in the myriads of differing opinions out there, so I started staying home on Sundays, wondering if I would ever really know decisive truth about God and His will. I was never okay with accepting anything blindly or sentimentally; no partial-truths or handed-down hear-says. I heard the name Medjugorje from Michael Brown on a tv show in the mid-nineties, saw a book that same week on the subject at the library, so I checked it out. By the time I finished the book I was Catholic. Joining up with the "whore of Babylon" didn't go over well with family and friends, but I'd found the truth I was looking for. Mary at Medjugorje taught me about the Eucharist, about the sacrament of confession, about the priesthood, about the way God wanted us to live (in terms and depths that were new to me), about the Church, about praying the rosary -- about her. It speared me, I knew I'd found home at last. Then, reading tons of books to check out the official Catholic Faith, I found it all matched. So now I live as a dedicated Catholic. It doesn't hurt that Pope John Paul II, now officially sainted, loved Medjugorje. And he was part of the reason I was able to throw my lot in with the Catholic Church, as he was such a recognizable saint of God, and I felt in my spirit I could trust him. If the devil does this (Medjugorje), then he needs to go back to the drawing board and draw up another plan, 'cause this one ain't workin'. Sending folks running into the arms of the Church and the Sacraments, defeats his purpose. Unless of course I've been entirely deceived and the Catholic Church isn't God's will after all. I don't think that's it, but my Protestant brothers and sisters would agree with you, ZMWT, that I bought this deceptive "bill of goods". If so, then I plead: "Lord, have mercy, I'm following the best I can". Since then I've studied everything about the Church, and Marian apparitions, and "Heavenly" messages, that I could dig up, and as far as Marian things go, while I think many are credible and worthy of consideration, I hold Medjugorje to be the most credible of all. I'm with Pope JPII, and he didn't disapprove of it. That's all there is to it, for me. The proof is in the pudding. On "Har-Megedon": Who knows, maybe that's the spot where Mary's Immaculate Heart will finally and decisively bust the enemy. That's very possible, but we'll see when the time comes.
It's hard to argue against a post like this , but I suppose it won't stop someone trying. It's worth adding that the little village in the mountains has produced literally thousands of priestly vocations, in fact some seminaries are mainly manned by Medugorje led seminarians. If this is the work of the devil I would like to shake his hoof. Maybe he will even teach me to spell, 'Medugorje' right.
Let's knock this nonesense on the head once and for all. There is no connection between the word Medjugorje and the biblical Armageddon. Medjuorje is a topographical name. That is a descriptive placename. In the local language it translates as the place 'between the mountains'. Having been there one can see why it was called that. The word Armageddon translates as 'a mountain' or a 'range of hills'. It does not translate as between mountain, which is what Medjugorje means. One cannot take the book of Revelation as a literal interpretation of the future. Its is an allegorical style of literature that is symbolic. Not literal. And even when you take it literally (which you are not meant to do!) it translates as something different than the word for Medjugorje. Indeed using your literal interpretation one could argue that Lourdes translated as 'craggy slopes or craggy hills' fits better as Armageddon than Medjugorje. But that would be a plain daft argument wouldn't it! Hence I stand by my claim that yours is one of the most idiotic posts I have read on the forum. In fact I will go further and say it is a plain assault on the intelligence of the members of this forum. God has given us the gift of reason. But if you continue to insult our intelligence and waste our time please for my sanity go somewhere else.
I love it! I can see that ZMWT's opinion already runs against the stream here. I wanted to post my story just because I have seen it as a common argument -- in other places -- that Medjugorje itself doesn't bear the fruit, that the people who go there are already devout Catholics -- that even those who find their callings there were already on the road, despite Medjugorje. I can't argue against it, that most of those who will trouble to go to a place like Medjugorje will already have some faith in it. Not all, though, some have gone against their will, or looking to discredit it. But it won't explain people stumbling upon it by accident and being suddenly transformed to the Catholic Faith, right down to their bone marrow. It's Mary, I'm convinced, and that goes completely contrary to my nearly 500-year heritage of protestantism, so the life alteration was not socially comfortable, and certainly wasn't because of being blind or family-sentimental. I think detractors need to face that out-of-ordinary aspect of conversions. I know it will still be argued, but I won't get into it further. Some things just work, and one knows it in the heart.
I have been lucky enough to see Fr. Don Calloway give his conversion story in person. He is a dynamic priest, a Marian priest, who by his own admission was not a good person in his younger years. His conversion was started by Our Lady Of Medjugorie so again one has to wonder how a place where a vocation to the sacredness of God - His holy priesthood could be evil? Read his story below and google him for more full length youtube versions of his story - really remarkable. http://ministryvalues.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1007&Itemid=125
Medugorje reminds me of, in a wonderful way of the death and Resurrection of Christ. Do you recall when , when Jesus died the Veil in the Holy Temple was torn in two? Well the village is just like that. The veil between heaven and Earth was split in half for me there. I had the most interesting experiences there. I am, I guess, what you would call a mystic , I see things. But there it was as if heaven was come to Earth..what can I say? I had too the most compelling evidence of the devil attacking the village. I met a possessed woman, I was threatened by a group of men whom I assume were armed passing through the village, I saw a group of Satanic Princes in chains tied to pillars surrounding the place, I saw angels sent out all over the world as a result of prayer. I had a long and most interesting conversation with someone who had died recently. I confronted an evil priest with a warning from Our Lady to mend his ways. There was more. What can I say? I love a fight; I am Irish. I just adored the place. I have never seen Our Blessed Mother and Satan , the Old Dragon , so visibly present on the face of the Earth. Rome, Jerusalem, nowhere. That puff of black smoke, that nothingness. Astonishing. Really astonishing. All I can say if the Hand of God is not there, He is nowhere.
Although Our Lady told me I would never return, that I was to be Medugorje, this is a great sadness to me.
I love fr calloway. He is such a great speaker and seems like a very holy priest.a true son of our lady!
You know, a simple "I don't agree with this at all" would have been sufficient. Calling your own brother/sister pathetic is just wrong. ZMWT found something they thought interesting and decided to share it, no harm done, we're all adults here.
As I mentioned in my post God has given us the gift of intellect. Catholicism is the religion of faith and reason. So when someone posts an absolutely absurd hypothesis that is embarrassing to this forum then I am going to say so. To state that Medjugorje is the Biblical Armagedon and to misuse the Bible to support an idiotic and spurious claim deserves reprimand. It is an insult to the intellect like a conspiracy theory without the evidence. I have given good reasons for my argument in my previous post not least that we have a responsibility for correct Biblical exegesis. My criticisms are of the message not the messenger.
I have been to Medjugorje this October. I also understand the local language well enough since we once lived in the same country, Jugoslavija. Regardless what anybody says my opinion is that the fruits of Medjugorje are good. Our priest told us that even among priests there is much quarrel about the Medjugorje apparitions and if they want to get along, they better leave the subject be.
Please do your homework first, and then claim my incompetence. You dismiss my claims because you do not like the implication, but you do not go in detail to ascertain yourself the meanings of the words, and why they (coincidentally or what?) describe something of a perilous nature. If you, with no analysis nor any contrary evidence dismiss my claim that Medjugorje has the same meaning as Hebrew HarMageddo, then under which evidence you, or someone else, may claim that Virgin Mary really appears in Medjugorje and that the apparition is of the supernatural origin? How can you or anyone prove that is real Mary, Mother of God? Let's get back to the analysis. The meaning of both words, one in Croatian and one in Hebrew, is same. They imply the same thing. I can provide you the analysis of the word in Hebrew. The description of the word carried into Croatian, can apply to all: 1. Geographic place (Medju-gorje) 2. Place of 'apparition' (Pod-brdo) 3. The very shape of the temple (see the picture: two towers (tall hills) with an incision / furrow in between them) View attachment 2442 And that means serious caution. You may be tempted to dismiss one of them, say Podbrdo, as there is no implication that the local name Podbrdo implies the second hill in vicinity, yet the name still describes both the hill, and the bottom of it, enough to qualify it for the same word of HarMageddo. But you cannot dismiss all three implications, because you will be totally dismissing the word used in the Bible and its whole meaning. So it seems some don't want that word, and don't want its meaning: then what's the point of such a weak approach? Both geographic place (1) and place of 'apparition' (2) have the same meaning of the word Har in their name. Har is same as 'brdo', and 'brdo' is same as 'gora'. Both mean 'hill'. 'Brdo', 'brda' and 'gora', 'gorje' have the same meaning, as the Croatian is very rich and supple Slavic language. It is also the language in which many original Slavic words have been preserved — more than in any contemporary Slavic language. In Croatian one can use 'brda' or 'gorje' to depict the same image. When translating into Hebrew, one will use Har for both. That is why I was alerted to the meaning of the hebrew Har + Mageddo, because this second part, Mageddo, clearly describes a hill/hills separated with an incision, or, the furrow in between them. Mageddo has a meaning of furrow, and also in the Bible the word by itself is used in at least 9 times in the Old Testament to depict a forbidden laceration in the act of worship of God. Something strictly not allowed. Laceration, cutting, a scar, a furrow (in the tissue). In the Bible, names are not just names. They are very opulent descriptors. The Medjugorje 'apparition', as warned by the Jugoslavian bishop's conference, is not of supernatural origin and bishop's conference forbade organising pilgrimages. But they still continue, despite warnings. Now see how worshipping of it means leaving a serious scar in the tissue of real faith. You have all the possible meanings of HarMageddo now fully manifest in the Medjugorje. So please enjoy the transcription and Croatian analysis of the meaning of one of the most ominous words in the Bible.
