(I took the liberty of starting this new thread to avoid scattering information on this subject in other broader or generic threads.) Vera Shcherbakova, TASS Russian News Agency: [...] On this trip [to Greece and Cyprus], you have seen the heads of Orthodox Churches. You said some beautiful words about communion and reunification. So when will your next meeting with Patriarch Kirill be? What are the common projects with the Russian Church and what difficulties do you maybe observe in this process of drawing closer? Pope Francis: A good question. A meeting with Patriarch Kirill is not far on the horizon. I think next week [Patriarch] Hilarion is coming to me to arrange a possible meeting. Because the patriarch has to travel — I don’t know where, maybe in Finland, but I’m not sure — I’m always willing to go to Moscow to talk to a brother, there are no protocols. Brother to brother before protocols. And me with an Orthodox brother, his name is Kirill, his name is Chrysostomos, his name is Ieronymous, I am a brother, we are brothers, we say things face to face. Let’s not dance [...]. No, let’s say things face-to-face. But as brothers. Is it nice to see brothers arguing? It is beautiful, because they belong to the same mother, Mother Church, but they are a bit divided. Some because of legacy, some because of a history that is divided, but we must go together, try to work, and walk in unity and for unity. I am grateful to Ieronymos, to Chrysostomos, to all the patriarchs who have this desire to walk together. In unity ... the great Orthodox theologian Zizioulas — he is studying eschatology — once said jokingly that “we will find unity in the Eschaton” [the end of the world]. [...] It’s a saying, but it does not mean that we have to stand still ... waiting for the theologians to come to an agreement. This is a phrase, a manner of speaking. They say that Athenagoras said to Paul VI, “we put all the theologians on one island and we go [...] to another part.” It’s a joke. But, theologians continue to study, because this is good for us, leads us to understand better, and find unity. But in the meantime, let’s move on together. But how? Yes, praying together, doing charity together. I know, for example, I am thinking of Sweden, of [their] Caritas, [where] Lutherans and Catholics [work] together, they work together. Work together and pray together. This we can do. The rest should be done by the theologians, because we do not understand how to do it. Unity begins today on this path. https://www.ncregister.com/cna/full-text-pope-francis-in-flight-press-conference-from-greece
Head of Russian Orthodox Church hails interaction with Vatican in birthday message to Pope HIS HOLINESS FRANCIS POPE OF ROME Your Holiness, Pease accept my heartfelt greetings on this memorable date – your 85th birthday. For many years you have been serving God the Bestower of great gifts, always ready to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear (1 Pet 3:15), and encouraging your contemporaries to live in accordance with God’s commandments and perform works of love and mercy, so that they by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality (Rom 2:7). As Primates of the two largest Christian Churches in the world, we have a special responsibility for the future of humankind. This responsibility has a global dimension, as evidenced by our meeting in Havana and the Joint Declaration we signed. I am glad to note that while remaining faithful to their own traditions, our Churches have achieved a high level of cooperation. It enables us to work together to glorify the name of God throughout the world, strengthen the imperishable moral ideals in society, promote interfaith dialogue, and give proper responses to the present-day challenges. Greeting Your Holiness on this memorable day, I am praying that God may give you strength in body and spirit and that you may always remain not slothful in business; fervent in spirit; serving the Lord (Rom 12:11), succeeding in your Primatial labours. Many and good years to you. With love in Christ Jesus, +KIRILL PATRIARCH OF MOSCOW AND ALL RUSSIA https://mospat.ru/en/news/88656/ (The official website of the Russian Orthodox Church, December 2021)
I have to say that I don't see it as good news if it really happens, in the light of the messages of Fatima and Garabandal. If this Pope is now welcomed to Moscow, contrarily to the last ones, we must ask why. Did Russia finally get converted through the Immaculate Heart of Mary or, instead, the Catholic Church is finally converted in what Russia wanted? I hope I'm wrong, but I think we'll have lots of trouble ahead... Basically, it's about whose ring is going to be kissed in Moscow.
Vladimir Putin praises Pope Francis on his 85th birthday “You dedicated your whole life to promoting high spiritual and moral values. You have made an invaluable contribution to developing relations between the Russian Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church and to strengthening ties between Russia and the Vatican. I have many pleasant recollections of our meetings and our constructive and meaningful talks, which reaffirmed the similarity between the attitudes of Russia and the Holy See to the key international issues. I am confident that by working together we will be able to do a great deal to protect Christians’ rights and interests and to maintain interfaith dialogue. This year we marked the 200th birth anniversary of Fyodor Dostoyevsky, whose works you are familiar with. Please accept the gift of a sculptural portrait of this great Russian writer and thinker.” The President of Russia wished Pope Francis good health, wellbeing and success in his noble and responsible mission. http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/67382 (Kremlin's official website, December 17, 2021)
Of this whole letter I most impressed to read the last sentence, “succeeding in your Primatial labours”. It reads as a subtle recognition of the primacy of the Pope…
Yes but that comes after Patriarch Kirill putting himself on a par with the Pope on what regards to primacy. "As Primates of the two largest Christian Churches in the world, we have [...]" The Pope's primacy is above all Christians, all humanity and the whole world, but for him, for the Russian Orthodox Church, the Pope's primacy concerns only the West and the Latin Church, and it ends there. It is also interesting to see how the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople, traditionally the Primate of the Orthodox Communion, primus inter paris among the schismatic Eastern Orthodox Churches, is placed out of this equation.
Basto, I have the same unspoken concerns about this as you do. I am a convert to Catholicism. I was baptized in the Romanian Orthodox Church. I never practiced that religion. I became a Catholic when I was 15. My godfather was a Mason, and he showed his displeasure to me. Some close friends of the family want nothing to do with me to this day. There has always been a rift between the Orthodox and Catholics. These new developments make me uneasy. What is being sacrificed to bring about these changes? I’m not sure.
A plane B though, since the Church has refused the plane A, which would be an earlier consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary to obtain the conversion of that nation.
The new meeting between Pope Francis and Patriarch Kirill was planned in 2022 MOSCOW, January 7. /TASS/. Patriarch Kirill of Moscow and All Russia said after the Christmas service in the Cathedral of Christ the Savior he values kind relations with Pope Francis and hopes joint steps will be made to achieve peace in the conflict-hit regions. "I would like to thank our guests, Catholic Archbishop Paolo Pezzi, who is here in Moscow. I thank you for the message from Pope Francis that you conveyed to me. I appreciate very much those kind relations between us and hopefully, these relations will translate into many and many kind joint actions, including those aimed at achieving peace where there is no peace today," the Patriarch said. The first meeting between the head of the Russian Orthodox Church and the Pope took place in the Cuban capital of Havana in February 2016. The parties signed a 30-point joint declaration, which was particularly aimed at protecting the Christian presence in the Middle East and Africa. In December 2021, Pope Francis received the head of the External Church Relations Department of the Moscow Patriarchate, Metropolitan Hilarion of Volokolamsk in the Vatican. After the talks, Metropolitan Hilarion said the new meeting between Pope Francis and Patriarch Kirill was planned in 2022. https://tass.com/society/1384767
I don't know if I read it here, maybe I heard it on the radio but one can do a web-search of "Did Putin ask Pope to consecrate Russia?"" (the answer is allegedly that the Pope did not do the request) ; and you will get articles and videos. Maybe someone here said this but I will leave it up to members to search for that because you will find a number of such articles. I thought it sounded like wild speculation and maybe not responsible to post however, I would not find it wrong if someone else posted such. It just seems to muddy up the waters. Fatima Center (the Father Nicholas Gruner organization has such a topic for one example). I was just reading the other thread ( Russian troop build-up | Page 3 | Mother of God (motheofgod.com) ) , so yes, I think it is good to separate articles. I do not side with Putin or Russia, however, on some issues, I can see their apprehensiveness on these issues of their own territorial integrity.
That's a fairytale so obviously false that one would have to be very naive to believe it, or know nothing at all about the Putinist regime and its close connection with the schismatic Russian Orthodox Church. I believe that the only source of this urban myth may have been the statements by Father Paul Kramer in a video that spread to social media: This urban myth was later disproved by Paul Kramer himself. He claimed, in an interview that was on youtube, that he had been misinformed about this matter and that he could not confirm that this had actually happened. Unfortunately, the interview video, which was on the link below, has already been removed from youtube. I don't know if there is a copy of that video on another youtube channel or on a different media platform.
I must be naive then for even stating that. Maybe I should place that in my profile, thanks for the charitable reply and the expertise on the subject. Consecration has been made, what may be naive is bringing up these matters. A time of peace has ensued. Letter from Sister Lucia confirmed Consecration of Russia was done - Our Lady's Blue Army
My apologies, brother, if you found my comment offensive, I didn't mean to. In fact, I was myself also quite excited when I first heard about Vladimir Putin's supposed desire to consecrate the country to the Immaculate Heart of Mary... Then I looked for sources, but they turned out to be very fragile... Then I looked for facts and they didn't exist... And I ended up facing reality, unfortunately. If the almighty Russia's dictator Vladimir Putin wanted to consecrate his nation to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, he could do it at any time, along with the Russian Orthodox authorities or with the tiny group of Catholics that live in Russia, he would not need a Pope to do so. However, this would mean a willingness to convert to Catholicism, but that is not pleasant for them, nor for Putin neither for the schismatic Russian Orthodox Church. The "Immaculate Heart of Mary" is a devotion considered a Western thing and heretical for them. On the question of whether Russia's consecration to the Immaculate Heart of Mary has taken place or not, we know that there are two schools of thought on this matter, and I respect them both, even if I tend to believe more in one of them than in the other, as the time goes by. One of them says yes, the consecration has been done, we now live in a wonderful time of peace, and the other says no, we are still waiting to be done properly. However, Our Lord's conclusion to this question - which was made known to us by Sister Lúcia - is equally valid for both positions: "They did not wish to heed My request! …Like the King of France they will repent of it, and they will do it, but it will be late. Russia will have already spread its errors in the world, provoking wars and persecutions against the Church. The Holy Father will have much to suffer." (From the Rianjo apparition, 1931) So, if the consecration is done already, and I am not so sure of that, then it was done too late and we are now living the aftermath of that. https://fatima.org/about/fatima-the-facts/the-apparition-at-rianjo-1931/
The Kolbe Report published this on April 24th, 2021 so very recent. Kolbe Report 4/24/21 - Kolbe Center for the Study of Creation See article for the rest. Yes, Father Kramer was involved in the Fatma Center too, Father Gruner's organization. But this above seems to have further detail and the Kolbe Center published it in the last year. So, I will read further in this, surely, they would have corrected themselves if they were in error. Maybe they did, I'm not making any claims, I always thought the story was a bit extreme from the beginning but who knows?
Thanks for your reply, TinNM. Fr. Paul Kramer, as far as I know, has been away from The Fatima Center since he publicly rejected Pope Francis as a valid Pope. Fr. Nicholas Gruner has commented that rumor of Vladimir Putin asking for the consecration of Russia, but didn't confirm it. But as I said in a post above, this urban myth that apparently started with Kramer end up with him as well, since he confessed he was misinformed about that and couldn't confirm it. The text you provided from The Kolbe Center is very interesting and apparently written with great faith, devotion and piety in light of the message of Fatima. But let's get to the facts... I'm sure that for several decades many Christians will have sent letters to the Kremelin with similar content, Fr. Nicholas Gruner must be among them, so this part is nothing new. In fact, I even believe that the Holy See itself must have dialogued several times with Russia about the same matter, especially during the pontificate of John Paul II, because the topic of Fatima seems to me unavoidable in bilateral relations between the two states. The letter quoted in this article does not prove in any way that Putin has asked the Pope for the consecration of Russia, in fact it refers this information to a certain video seen on youtube of a Russian priest who tells this, but does not leave any link for us to see the video nor does it mention the priest's name or other personal information... I sincerely believe that the letter is referring to the same video by Father Paul Kramer where he appears with his most recent look, with a long beard and an unusual cassock in the West, and probably therefore confused with a Russian priest. I've seen this same confusion before, regarding Fr. Kramer's video. And I go back to the same question, why don't Putin ask his friend Patriarch Kirill of the Russian Orthodox Church to do that consecration? And then the Pope and the catholic bishops would have to follow him... Why would he come to ask it secretly? If Francis is the problem, why didn't they do the consecration during Pope Benedict's pontificate? There were several years of putinism during Benedict's pontificate, many opportunities... Why does the Russian Orthodox Church not have a single Church dedicated to the Immaculate Conception or do they not have icons of the Immaculate Heart of Mary? Only the Eastern Rite Catholics, very few in Russia and a lot of them in the Ukraine... Sviatoslav Shevchuk, the leader of the Eastern Rite Catholics from Ukraine - hated by the Kremlin and by the Russian Orthodox Church - has consecrated his nation to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, inside the Basilica of the Holy Trinity, at Fatima, in 2016. There were other eastern clergyman present at the cerimony, but none of them were from the Russian Orthodox Church, neither the event was ever publicized in their media channels. http://news.ugcc.ua/en/news/the_hea...ne_to_the_immaculate_heart_of_mary_77901.html
